Webinar

DEIA: There’s no such thing as DEI without Accessibility

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Webinar Transcript

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

I can start with some housekeeping. First of all, I’m Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy and Research Lead here at Inclusively. Before we get started, I wanted to share that we will be recording today’s session and will transcribe it and make it available to all of you afterwards. In addition, we will be taking audience questions at the end of the panel discussions, so please feel free to submit your questions via the Q&A section of the webinar tool, and we’ll get to the questions after our initial programming.

So let me introduce our speakers today. Charlotte Dales is the Co-Founder and CEO of Inclusively, the technology center of employment platform driving inclusion and opportunities for people with disabilities in the workplace. Before launching Inclusively, Charlotte started her career in finance with Deutsche Bank in London. And after five years, she left her banking job and co-founded her first company, a mobile payment and reservation application for restaurants and bars, which scaled to over 200 restaurants in London and was acquired by Amex. Charlotte’s experience in technology and startups has allowed Inclusively to provide a new technology solution to drive authentic diversity and inclusion in the workplace.

And we also have with us today John D. Kemp, Esquire. John is a widely respected leader for his many achievements in the corporate and nonprofit world as well as his leadership in the disability movement. A person with a disability himself, John co-founded the American Association of People with Disabilities, and he currently serves as President and CEO of Lake Shore Foundation, an internationally recognized organization providing opportunities for individuals with physical disability to lead healthy active lives through physical activity, sports research and advocacy. In addition, Mr. Kemp chairs Delta Airlines advocacy board on disability and serves on numerous other boards. As a renowned global speaker, John inspires others to achieve greatness through knowledge, experience, vision and persistence.

Alright, so let’s just dive right in. I want to put DEIA in context a bit. Last year in 2021, President Biden signed Executive Order 14035 into law to “reestablish a coordinated government wide initiative to promote diversity and inclusion in the federal workforce and expanded scope to include equity and accessibility with accessibility defined as “the design, construction, development and maintenance of facilities Information and Communication Technology programs and services, so that all people including people with disabilities can fully and independently use them.” And it goes on “accessibility includes the provision of accommodations and modifications to ensure ensure equal access to employment, and participation in activities for people with disabilities, the reduction or elimination of physical and attitudinal barriers to equitable opportunities, a commitment to ensuring that people with disabilities can independently access every outward facing and internal activity or electronic space, and the pursuit of best practices such as universal design.” So I really love that piece on attitudinal barriers. And I’m excited to talk about that. We will link to both of these in the chat, the executive order as well as the strategic plan that came out of that executive order. But to start things off, John, I’d love to ask you, you’ve been an advocate in this community for many years, and specifically in the workplace, and workplace advocacy, can you provide more context on what it means to add an A to the DEI narrative, perhaps like what’s happening today versus what could be happening with true accessibility?

Speaker 2: John D. Kemp, Esq., President & CEO at Lakeshore Foundation

Thank you, Fully. And Charlotte, It’s always great to be on with you. And I, so respect you and Inclusively. I do think that this is an important step forward. And some people will say, gosh, isn’t it already implied that this should be included in all DEI activities? And, you know, we can say that about a lot of things in the area of DEI, but to call it out and to call out the issue of accessibility not just to the built environment, but to the access to information and technologies. And then changing and improving attitudes of non-disabled individuals towards us is really a powerful statement. I really appreciate the fact that the administration has done that.

You know that the issue of people with disabilities is not going away. In fact, our population is growing, and it’s growing faster than the population of non-disabled individuals. People are living longer. They’re acquiring disabilities along life’s path. And just that mere existence of accidents, illness, injuries, along with aging, means that disability is growing at an alarming, not alarming, but you know, a continuous rate that’s faster than the population. So adding accessibility is really saying, if we have to include people with disabilities in all aspects of our corporate life, or non governmental lives, and of course, government itself in delivering programs and services and employment opportunities, it’s a big deal.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

Awesome. And Charlotte, when you think of workplace accommodations, tell us more about what that means. What do accommodations look like today? What might they look like in the future? And what are these accommodations costing?

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

Yeah, so one of the main reasons I started this company was because my cousin became the first licensed facialist in the state of Florida with Down syndrome. And when I got my first facial from her, obviously, I was incredibly excited and inspired about what she was able to achieve. But what I really noticed was the slight adjustments that were both free and easy to do, and that her employer had to make her successful in her position. So you know, having a checklist that she can just rinse and repeat every single time.

And I think that’s sort of what inspired me to start – understanding that accommodations are really easy to implement. And most of them are free or under $500. And so I was curious how we could make it really, really easy for employers to accommodate people’s unique requests at scale. And I think that one of the things that’s blocking us is that people don’t understand what all the accommodations are, and that it is easy to provide them. And it’s not expensive, but also, it’s not a one size fits all. Like someone with Down syndrome, they’re not going to all have the same experience of that. Same with other disabilities, people are going to be asking for different accommodations. So you really have to just figure out what’s the structure in which you can provide these to anyone, no matter who they are, and what they’re asking.

And so in terms of what is being requested today, I think one thing that’s been really overlooked is interview accommodations. So, you know, you can have everything set up and in place for people once they get hired, but if they’re not being accommodated in the interview, they’re not being set up for success. And that probably reduces their chances of actually joining the company. So I think, interview accommodations, things like just removing the need to have a panel interview for someone who prefers to have a one on one or potentially having a support animal. An accommodation could also be ensuring that when they show up, there’s appropriate signage on doors and bathrooms, and that you’ve put candidates in a room where they’re going to be comfortable, and they can request different things like requesting one room over another room for a reason. So I think interview accommodations are one thing that I’d say are being requested today.

I think it is a lot around the physical accommodations, things that you can see. And that’s what people are used to, like, is there a ramp? Is there an elevator? Is there a screen reader, and I think the accommodations of tomorrow are more flexible and personal to the experience to each person. And ultimately, when you think about it that way, accommodations will benefit everyone, not just the disability community. We’ve seen that with COVID and with remote work, people want access to flexible schedules, so that they can pick their kids up from school. When you design for the disability community, you’re usually making a better process for everyone.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

Totally. So speaking of the pandemic, John, COVID has sort of shifted the conversation around workplace accommodations. I think for most of our existence, there was a very strong notion that being onsite and in the workplace was the desired end state. Do you think that long COVID is changing that narrative? And what can companies do today to meet the needs of their employees better?

Speaker 2: John D. Kemp, Esq., President & CEO at Lakeshore Foundation

Well, long COVID is real. And I think that takes a little bit of courage on the part of employers to finally acknowledge that the federal government sees long COVID as real. There are protections under the ADA that apply as long as the symptom does interfere with a major life activity. Just think how long COVID presents: tiredness and fatigue, shortness of breath, or difficulty breathing, headache, dizziness and standing chest pain, cough, joint or muscle pain, depression or anxiety, fever, loss of taste or smell. So these are all conditions and symptoms of long COVID. But they only become a requirement to be accommodated and addressed if they interfere with a major life activity. And I think that Charlotte addressed how accommodations are made to individuals. But I want to tag on to something that Charlotte is talking about. And that is accommodations really should be made available to all people and long COVID can be a condition of a disability that is covered by ADA and may very well need to be accommodated. There may be opportunities for remote work and remote workplaces work perfectly well to a lot of people with disabilities who have difficulty accessing transportation, spending incredible amounts of time getting dressed, getting to a public transportation stop, getting to work, and then getting back and unwinding. It is efficient, except there are jobs that do require you to be on site and present. And there’s nothing to say that a job is justified and can’t expect someone to be there working on it fully. But 8% of the adult workforce today is dealing with long COVID symptoms. I’m sure you’re as amazed as I am. But it is true and you can’t expect someone to have to provide the medical documentation that they do have these conditions that constitute long COVID. So accommodations play perfectly well in addressing people with long COVID. And the accommodations that are available for not just people with disabilities, but for all your employees play perfectly well for accommodating people with long COVID.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

Got it. Charlotte as a follow up, there was a recent study of mental health at work which is conducted every other year. So it was conducted in 2019. And then again in 2021. It found that 76% of full time workers reported experiencing at least one mental health condition, which would be covered by the ADA. And that was a 29% increase over 2019. Can you talk about how the sort of awareness around mental health is potentially bringing about more openness toward accommodations in general in the workplace?

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

Now, I think the pandemic definitely brought a lot of light just around lots of inequities for people with disabilities in many other under-invested segments. But I think that in terms of mental health, the discussion definitely started before the pandemic, but accelerated because of the pandemic. And I think that there’s pros and cons to this that we’re seeing in the market. Just working with companies now that remote work is available to everyone is amazing, because it just goes to show that so many jobs can be done successfully remotely, perhaps even more successfully. And those employees may even be more happy and loyal to be there. But I think the other side of it is that because of the pandemic, many people view some of these accommodations that were made during the pandemic as preferences, which means now going back to sort of, I guess, a semi-post pandemic world, we’ll see. People are saying, we may be going back into the office full time, or we haven’t decided our hybrid situation, which shouldn’t be applied to the demographic of people with disabilities and mental health challenges that are requesting remote or some type of flexibility as an accommodation. And so I think that it’s definitely shown employers that they can be wildly more flexible than they were in the past. But I think it’s also given the reminder there that this isn’t just like a preference that you can decide now that the pandemic is over, that we’re not doing remote anymore. If someone’s asking it for an accommodation, it’s a different ask and you’ve now proven that it’s reasonable because almost your entire workforce was remote for a couple of years.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

That’s the same study that I mentioned. It found some amazing increases in mental health accommodations, like a 550% increase in extended and more frequent breaks. That’s something that everyone can benefit from, not just people who identify as having a disability, and a 300% increase in therapy appointments during work hours. Again, that’s something that is a huge benefit for anyone and it’s not a hard cost to the employer either.

Along those lines, actually, I know Inclusively has a partnership with BetterHelp. Can you share any more information about that? Um, or would you like me to?

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

Yeah, I would like to. I’m not exactly sure what we’re allowed to share.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

For National Disability Employment Awareness Month, which is this month, during the month of October, Inclusively is offering both all of our candidates on our platform and all of our customers’ employees one month of free online therapy, if you go to our website, or maybe Shayla can put a link in the chat if it’s available. We are really excited about that partnership. And we’ll be sharing more information about it for those of you who are on our network and on our mailing list.

Okay, John, there is an incredible bias research researcher at Harvard who has published research findings showing that gender, sexual identity and race discrimination have all improved significantly over the last 15 years, while disability discrimination has barely budged and could take up to 200 years to reach zero bias. Do you have thoughts on why that is the case? And what can we do to speed that up?

Speaker 2: John D. Kemp, Esq., President & CEO at Lakeshore Foundation

I do, Fully. I have a couple of thoughts. First of all, nobody’s going to wait around for 200 years, and to be able to wait around for this comes to the benefit of people with disabilities. We have been overlooked and undervalued for way too long. And as usual, we’re following other groups that have found a voice and found an audience and convinced employers primarily that they bring tremendous value by being included in the applicant pools and advancement pools. Disability is no different. In some respects, I will say that I do acknowledge that disability often visits upon people throughout life’s path, either episodically or more permanently. And some people with disabilities start their life with their disabilities like me, and I’m like one of the 15% to 20% of folks with disabilities who were born with their disabilities. But as you can tell from the statistics, 80% to 85% of people with disabilities acquired them along life’s path. So the public employer providers really don’t have a lot of experience in addressing this because disability is always new. And especially different kinds of disabilities. The definition is very broad, and it’s intentionally broad. But that is part of the challenge to corporations and their cultures.

Colin Mayer, in his book Prosperity, wrote that 40 years ago, and that’s only 40 years ago, 80% of the market value of a US Corporation was attributable to tangible assets, plant machinery, buildings, things like that. As against intangibles like licenses, patterns, and research and development today, 85% of the market value of US corporations is in the intangibles, the people, the talent that companies are looking for. It’s not smart to just arbitrarily exclude vast portions of people with disabilities and ignore the talent and the intangible benefits that people with disabilities do bring to the workplace. So I think if you think about that shift of 80% tangible now and some intangible assets of corporations, we are part of that 85%. And any company that ignores these kinds of social aspirations and occupational aspirations of a large group of people, do it at their own peril, and they will not be relevant to the workforce. And I think that they will have great difficulties in their recruiting.

So a suggestion is obviously looking at the systemic issues that a company can control, like by policy, what kind of job descriptions do they have? And what are the words that are used and maybe AI. As scary as AI is to people with disabilities, especially in the recruitment space, I think AI can be looked upon to look at job descriptions and kind of ferret out the action words that are being used, like speak, and see, that immediately starts limiting the number of people that can’t apply for these positions. And they’re probably arbitrary, and absolutely unlawful to have in job descriptions. So there’s a lot to do to speed this up. And we don’t need to wait a couple of 100 years to catch up with gender, sexual identity, and racial discrimination. Folks, we just need to have people think, in a more pluralistic sense, about how you enrich your applicant pool by including more people, including people with disabilities into that applicant pool and advancement pool. When they do that, you’re going to get the cream of the crop, and you’re gonna get very, very good employees.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

And along those lines, Charlotte, I think this is really interesting in the context of recruiting and the younger generations. What is your response to mandates like Elon Musk’s mandate to Tesla and SpaceX employees that said “everyone is required to spend a minimum of 40 hours a week in the office”and that innovative product development doesn’t happen by “phoning it in.”

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

I think that there’s two sides to this coin. I think that statement is probably not the right way to go after it. I do understand that during the pandemic, the essential workers still had to show up every day, and not to sound draconian, but at the time, we didn’t know what was going to happen. And essentially, they could have been, or thought that they might be putting their own lives at risk to show up. And they were still doing that. And I think that there is something to be said about that in this horrible hard time, these people had to show up, but other people didn’t, and, you know, during the pandemic, that was definitely the right move, because you just wanted to minimize cross contamination to the least amount of people, but, you know, going to a post-pandemic world, I see the thought that like, it isn’t fair to say that these people get to now enjoy this all the time. And you still have to do the same thing, especially when your business is around innovation and building physical assets. However, I think it goes back to what I said earlier, which is that asking for remote work as an accommodation is very different from offering it as a preference. And I think that that’s really where the statement doesn’t necessarily touch on the fact that, if you’re someone with a disability, it reasonably can be made remote. You know, the statement is almost like, “Don’t come here,” or, “Don’t ask for this.” And I think that’s something that a lot of people think is a genuine mistake. It isn’t a preference for everyone. And so I think that’s my view on it. I do understand trying to be fair, especially with the essential workers and everything that they did, but I think that there’s a difference between the two, and that wasn’t really touched on in his statement.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

John, if you could change one thing with regard to the country’s approach to disability inclusion or employers approach to disability inclusion in the workplace, overnight, what would that one thing be?

Speaker 2: John D. Kemp, Esq., President & CEO at Lakeshore Foundation

Oh, I’d love to have that power. I’d love that. If the public could appreciate that value of people with disabilities of all types and differences, and just start out with the assumption that we have so much to offer, and that by including us, you’re eliminating that choice and that benefit that is inherent in people with disabilities. I think I would try that, and I can always go to the economic argument and say the applicant pool will be increased, but it’s really about valuing people. And it goes to the core of what DEI is all about. And that is really accepting the fact that there are a lot of people who are very different than we are, and that we’re going to respect where they came from, and what their beliefs are, and embrace their differences to enhance the quality of our workforce. And once we get to that point, it becomes natural, then I think we’ll have people with disabilities included. That’s what I would change overnight, if I had the magic wand, and I could just go, “Boom!” I would just say, “Wake up! There are a lot of great, great people with disabilities you are overlooking. So let us be a part of your process”.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

Charlotte, same question for you.

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

This is an easy answer for me, because I think it’s just the problem we see every day in the work that we’re doing. If I could change one thing, it’s that individuals don’t realize that they can make a difference at a large organization by just starting. This doesn’t need to just be a huge company wide training, and everyone needs to change everything they’re doing and learn everything right away. You can be one person at one company and hire someone with a disability and completely change the culture of your company and inspire everyone else to do the same thing. And so if I could change things overnight, it’s inspiring more people to be that person at their organization. I don’t care how big it is. I think that’s the biggest misconception that gets people started. And I think especially in this day and age where people really are readjusting the way they’re thinking about their jobs, and the meaning that they have on the world. This gives any job at any company, meaning, if you are waking up every morning and thinking about these things, in terms of how you’re hiring, and just starting to make the change yourself.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

Awesome. And with that, I would love to open it up to the audience. So folks, please feel free to enter your questions into the Q&A panel, and we will get to them. We have a question. John, I’m hoping you might be able to answer this from Diana. What type of medical documentation should someone provide to an employer if they have long haul COVID?

Speaker 2: John D. Kemp, Esq., President & CEO at Lakeshore Foundation

Well, that is an issue that has not changed over the life of civil rights and employment for people with disabilities. It has to be medical documentation by a professional who understands the condition that the person has and can make a judgment about that individual’s condition, the medical condition, but also in light of the work to be performed. So I think that it takes maybe some occupational medical professionals but also licensed mental health folks and other individuals who might be able to absolutely define what and affirm that this individual is suffering from depression, anxiety, or what other physical issue that they might have from long COVID and can make a determination that it substantially interferes with a major life activity, they’re qualified to make that determination, then it has to be accepted.

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

I think just one thing I would say on that subject, too, is we actually really encourage employers not to require medical documentation. I think that there’s pros and cons to asking, and some people won’t change their policy, but from the candidates perspective, what we recommend is, you know, figure out what accommodations you need and go forth with the sort of disclosure if you want to make it and the accommodations that you think might help you in that scenario, and why, and get people to understand you’re not asking for that much. This is what you think will make you more productive. And hopefully you can shift the mindset from needing this documentation to “Sure I can do that because I’m a human being, and it’s not that hard to do”.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

Great. We have a question from Amy. She would love for us to dig a bit deeper on the idea that you really can’t do DEI without accessibility. Can you all talk a little bit more about this? I think it’s so fascinating that we’ve talked about DEI in the past without talking about access. And access is a word that means many things in different communities. But with this community, the disability community, it also means something kind of literal. So which of you wants to go first?

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

John, you can jump in, and I can go after you?

Speaker 2: John D. Kemp, Esq., President & CEO at Lakeshore Foundation

Well, as I mentioned, when we had the first question about this, it’s sort of odd that we have to keep saying this over and over. It should be implied, it should be implicit that we have to have access to be included. But for those who don’t have familiarity with disabilities, and people with disabilities, it needs to be explicit. So we say accessibility, we say access. We say the built environment, and we say technology has to be accessible. And of course, innovation is just speeding up the rate of change. And I think the hard part for a lot of employers is whether they make a capital investment or a substantial investment in technologies. And they’ve convinced the CFO and anybody else that this is worth some money and they make this change, if it does require anything. But most of the time, it’s the attitudes. And I’m glad, Fully, that you called that out, particularly with regard to the strategic plan and the President’s border. It’s really the mindset of the individual who’s making the hiring decision about whether or not you really want the best people. And if you really do want the best people, many of them, some of them will be people with a variety of conditions. And then I would expect that they would figure out a way to keep them and get them into your workplace, and it’s not going to cost a lot of money.

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

Yeah, and I think on another note, I would add that diversity, equity, and inclusion should include people with disabilities. But I would say that I started working on this company around 2018 2019, and the majority of companies didn’t have disability as a part of their diversity conversation yet, or they were behind on that. So it wasn’t so obvious to people. So I think it’s great that it’s now added. However, I also think that accessibility doesn’t just have to refer to

the demographic of people with disabilities. The reason DEI is a problem at organizations is because of access. Why are any of these populations not equally represented in companies? It’s because of different things that are happening within the company that are giving them less access than others. And so I think that adding that to the equation really puts the onus on the company about the actions they’re going to take to make it more accessible for everyone. And ultimately, I think that’s all the diverse segments. Like, we’re all bigger if we all band together. And I think that it’s great that it’s added for disability, but I also think it’s great that the action and the statement is there for the entire demographic.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

Yeah. I want to encourage folks to head to our website Inclusively.com. To learn more about how to support workers with disabilities in the workplace. We’ve got a great blog and a ton of resources there. I also want to apologize that the closed captioning was not working. We will be sending the transcription and the webinar recording when we’re finished. We do have one final question. Great question. How can we spread awareness about National Disability Employment Awareness Month within our organizations?

I think that there’s a lot of webinars, content, and press that’s going to be coming out the entire month around this subject, so I think it’s hard to say without knowing the company, but I think getting that into the right hands at your organization around how we amplify this message. There’s gonna be so much research that is always produced in this month. Accenture always does an annual report, but there’ll be tons of other research that comes out too. And I think it’s focusing on bringing the awareness and trying to get it to the right people at your organization, but try to find the press and the webinars that are really going to help you handover what the ROI is to your organization. So that, you know, it is a feel-good initiative. But that’s not why we’re all here. We want this to be a sustainable solution to the problem, not just bring awareness. So I think there’s a lot that will get produced this month, which will be great to leverage into your company and figure out who’s the right person to amplify this.

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

I couldn’t agree more. I think that there are resources already out there that you could go to the US Department of Labor Office of Disability Employment Policy, you can check with your disability employment organizations in your communities to find out what other what other companies are doing. And certainly your human resource and DEI associations locally are all jumping into this pretty quickly. And there’s actually a long track record of companies that have been doing celebrations, just as they do for all minority populations. So I think it’s good that people stop and think about what’s going on for people with disabilities in the workplace. And we are a very diverse group of people with disabilities. So there’s no shortage of opportunities to get smarter. Is it just me, or can you not hear, Fully?

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

Can you hear me now?

Speaker 3: Charlotte Dales, Co-Founder & CEO at Inclusively

Yes.

Speaker 1: Fully Teasdale, Market Strategy & Research Lead at Inclusively

Good. Thank you for that. We will be sending out the transcription and a recording. So if you want to share this with other folks, you’ll be able to do so. Again, we’re really sorry about the closed captioning. We apologize for that. And we hope to see you again soon. We do webinars about once a month. So John and Charlotte, thank you so much for your time and your advocacy. We all appreciate it. Thanks, John, for joining us.

Speaker 2: John D. Kemp, Esq., President & CEO at Lakeshore Foundation

Thank you very much. Bye. Bye, everyone.

Helpful Resources

Press Release: The State of Workplace Inclusion and Accommodations

Press Release: The State of Workplace Inclusion and Accommodations

The State of Workplace Inclusion & Accommodations Report

The State of Workplace Inclusion & Accommodations Report

Inclusively’s Retain Salesforce Case Study

Inclusively’s Retain Salesforce Case Study